Showing posts with label Bryan Kohberger. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Bryan Kohberger. Show all posts

02 August 2025

TRUE CRIME and DNA FOR SOLVING CRIMES : DNA and THE BRYAN KOHBERGER - IDAHO FOUR CASE : WHEN THE NIGHT COMES FALLING BOOK BY HOWARD BLUM

I'm not a devotee of True Crime, however, I got hooked on the Bryan Kohberger - Idaho Four murder case back when it happened. I recall it was Covid-19 closure time. I was home listening to the radio while doing some crocheting and was stunned to hear the news that four college students had been found murdered in their off campus rental house. 

It was a party house. A house where other students were drinking and who knows what else even when not one of the renters was actually home. That was dangerous. It was also dangerous, in my opinion, that all four were members of hard-partying sororities and fraternities; I dare say the word alcoholism seemed to have been censored from reportage. Excessive drinking to the point of beyond a little lit was going on. Also dangerous, in my opinion, was the social networking and postings that the girls did, in particular the two blondes, who posed adorably but also just within the limits of modern modesty. Did the whole world have to know how much fun they were having? Did they really need to give off so much personal information? Perhaps this was the relative naivety of Idaho and a small college-student reliant town? Or maybe I'm just too old to get it?

Strangely, the photos of the house that made it seem rather rural didn't show that they were actually right next to an apartment house and other houses.

Perhaps this particular crime story especially caught my interest because I had my own college experience living on a campus while trying to find off-campus housing. That experience of mine also made me furious when I heard some professionals, such as people who worked as detectives or for the FBI say some things about the suspect who'd been arrested, Bryan Kohberger, that was just stupid, such as that he majored in Criminal Justice to learn how to murder. I was once surrounded by grad students and these opinionated guests seemed to be without understanding of the demands of graduate work or the fact that many a grad student works as a TA - Teaching Assistant - and some of them are not great at teaching or reasonable on how they grade. This is especially true when a TA does not want to teach after they get their Phd.

Some podcasters and newscasters would talk about how Kohberger had failed to commit the perfect crime and get away with it and was actually dumb. Or he was accused of intellectual arrogance and was actually too smart. 

His right to be assumed guilty was over quickly. I didn't believe he could get a fair trial. 

Then, in July 2025, the man admitted he did commit the murders. I'm sure some of the investigators - as well as the taxpayers - were happy they had the right guy all along especially because millions had been spent. He got a plea deal that means he will not be executed by firing squad but spend his life in prison.

Back in 2022, I started searching for more information and I started to listen to YouTube videos - podcasts - about the murders, the investigation, the arrest, and all things Kohberger and the Idaho Four. When I heard that the whole case was circumstantial - though videos, cell phones, and other new technologies had been applied - it seemed that "touch DNA" in the metal button of the knife sheath was the most important thing connecting the man to the crime.

When The Night Comes Falling is the book I read recently with an eagerness to know more than I had heard on YouTube podcasts, having listened to an easy hundred hours of discussion, speculation, or reportage, of these since the murders, November 13, 2022.

So yes, there were a few things in Howard Blum's book that I had not heard before. 

Blum intimates that Bryan's father had grown suspicious that his son had become a murderer - but that was unthinkable. Another is that that DNA Bryan was packing up in little plastic bags and taking to the neighbor's trash cans in the middle of the night was his dad's not his. And that some other relative of theirs had posted on a genealogy database that lead to the dad. 

I also was amazed that touch DNA is based on a very small number of skin cells, especially considering that we're shedding skin cells wherever we go. Honestly, a speck of dandruff has more than the shed of a quick touch of finger! 

Kaylee was only home for a visit and had already moved out. She wanted to see friends and party and perhaps also reignite her on and off relationship with a boyfriend that she had ended. They still shared a dog but she was going to travel in Europe and then take a job in another state. Jack was a suspect and went through some investigation but was quickly considered innocent of any involvement.

Maddy was the target and there's a question as to when Bryan began to fixate on her but maybe he did eat at the Mad Greek where she waitressed once though no one remembers that. 

Ethan and Xana were likely as unexpected in the house as Kaylee was but then at least one of them went to see what the noise was. 

Two of the victims fought for their lives - Kaylee and Xana. 

The FBI had a small airplane following Bryan and his dad as they traveled back to Pennsylvania in his car during what was to be a month long school break. Bryan left before the letter stating that he had been let go as a TA was received so he didn't know that yet, and he talked to his dad about some difficulties and said no way would the university be able to just let him go. The FBI did not tell the other investigative entities such as the police know they were leading the case. It was the Indiana traffic stops that made the FBI think another investigate entity had come to the same conclusion they had. His dad had driven out with him in the first place. (I never thought having a companion for a long drive was a bad idea.)

Of course, the gag order has been lifted since Kohberger admitted he was the murderer. This means that some of the speculation will end because more facts will come out but I wonder, because so this case has spawned so much news when it will actually fade away. It seems to me that a lot of podcasters will have to move on to other murders. I sometimes wonder what will be as compelling to their listeners.

My curiosity about how our legal system works - or how it does not - will continue, as will my interest in how investigations are conducted.

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TRUE CRIME : My number one favorite is/was Surviving the Survivor. I also listened to Grizzly True Crime, which is probably my number two. I listened to Harsh Reality, one of the stations that maintained some doubt or questioning about Bryan Kohberger being the murderer. I have to warn you that a turn off is the hosts use of foul language.

30 April 2025

THE BRYAN KOHBERGER TRIAL NEARS and I'M JUST AS INTERESTED IN THE INVESTIGATIVE GENETIC GENEALOGY DNA EVIDENCE ASPECT OF THE CASE

September 5 2025: Just a note here... As you may know Kohberger decided to admit his guilt and there is no trial. He has his sentence and is in prison for life. 

THE BRYAN KOHBERGER TRIAL NEARS and I'M JUST AS INTERESTED IN THE INVESTIGATIVE GENETIC GENEALOGY DNA EVIDENCE ASPECT OF THE CASE


It's been a while since I posted about my interest in the "Idaho Four" Murder case.  Although I'm not a follower of True Crime podcasts in general, I have spent many hours listening to various podcasts about this one. Some of the podcasters and the people they interview make me crazy because, overall, the man has been convicted and is assume to be guilty even when they make a mention of that fact that in the United States we presume innocence, while going on to talk about him specifically as the murderer. Listening to a variety of opinions is good because it certainly opens one's mind to possibility. For instance, I do think there is reason to consider that there was more than one murderer involved in the killing of the four students, two weapons, two styles of stabbing or gouging, and a timeline that would mean to me that a person would probably have to be a killing professional to kill four persons so quickly.  Day by day, as more information that was kept away from the citizen and the media, is released, some notions are challenged, while others make more sense.

It's been a couple years now since Koberger, once a PhD. candidate student studying criminology, was arrested.  His lawyers are thorough and a third has recently been put on a case in which many thousands of documents must be looked over by attentive staff. This case includes much that is modern such as videos, door bell cameras, cell phone pings, and the DNA  which is "Touch DNA." Using Genealogy database as well as going through his family's garbage cans, the FBI matched his father with "Touch DNA" on the metal button of a leather knife protector left at the scene.  The knife itself has not been found. The database and the relative did not give permission. But what's in place to stop law enforcement?

As a genealogist, the use of Genealogy databases and DNA testing service databases is of the most interest to me. It's clear that everywhere we go and everything we do, we are leaving trace evidence of our existence. I was thinking about this the other day because I'm the only person on earth besides her owner, a friend of mine, who can hold a small Jack Russel terrier named Princess. Princess is extremely protective of my friend and/or is terrified of just about every other human or dog that lives. Princess has been shedding all over me, all over.  I see that and I think about shedding a few skin cells wherever I go.

I think we are all challenged with a conflict here of wanting a murderer caught but also wanting our personal privacy. In a recent court pretrial ruling it was determined that this DNA evidence would not be used...

KREM : KOHBERGER PRETRIAL DETERMINATION DNA

Excerpt: Both sides agreed not to introduce evidence obtained through Investigative Genetic Genealogy (IGG). Instead, the state will rely on a "tip" that led to Khoberger. The court also reserved ruling on a motion involving evidence of alternative perpetrators, requiring the defense to submit offers of proof by a set deadline.

On the topic of DNA evidence, the court granted a motion to exclude misleading population comparisons related to likelihood ratios presented to the grand jury. However, it would not restrict similar questioning during the trial. A defense motion to exclude testimony about an "inconclusive" DNA likelihood ratio was denied as moot, as the state said it would not use it as inculpatory evidence.

Here is an explanation of TOUCH DNA https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-46051-9

Touch DNA: impact of handling time on touch deposit and evaluation of different recovery techniques: An experimental study
C 2025 Ancestry Worship - Genealogy BlogSpot

10 August 2023

DNA GENEALOGY and THE BRYAN KOHBERGER MURDER CASE : IS THE DNA ENOUGH? CAUTIONS ON THE USE OF DNA SERVICES

DAILY MAIL UK - KOHBERGER IDAHO TRIAL UPDATE 

I've been following this murder case, perhaps uncharacteristically so, since the four college students in Idaho were found stabbed to death in their close-to-campus rental house late last fall.  Bryan Kohberger, a graduate student in criminology at another university across state lines but only about 20 minutes away by vehicle, was arrested as the only suspect about a month later.  The crime-investigation buffs all over the world, including several who run crime-oriented YouTube channels immediately got interested in the case. My concern was and is that almost everything I have heard and read has him guilty before being proven so.  Can he get a truly fair trial?  I read that there have been over 40,000 articles and videos about him and even those that have people who should know better - such as FBI agents and police detectives - talk about him as if this were so.

It's IMPORTANT.  Any of us could be arrested for a crime we did not commit and lack the resources for our legal defense.  Any of us could be falsely accused of anything. So this is a test case for what happens in today's world of easy information and world wide coverage.

Meanwhile there are literally many thousands of unsolved murders in the United States that get no attention. 

Bit by bit his defense attorney or his defense has provided information that would indicate that Kohberger may very well be innocent of the crimes. Seems as if a tiny bit of DNA that was taken off the metal button of a knife sheath left at the scene is now being refuted.  The party house, one in which parties went on when none of the renters were there to host or keep control, was one in which strangers could easily attend. DNA from others was found there. In addition, there was reported (and i can't verify) that despite what was said to be an extremely bloody scene, no blood evidence was found in Kohberger's apartment, car, or parent's house...

In the article above, which I'll excerpt from below, the difficulty of being sure of results is stressed.

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Excerpt:

A poor quality kit might have too few matches or it just might have phantom matches that are not real measures of relationship,' the document reads.

Larkin notes that sites such as AncestryDNA, 23ndme and MyHeritage prohibit forensic/investigative genetic genealogy in their databases, but there isn't really a way to enforce it.

'In the absence of effective oversight, forensic genetic genealogists are on an 'honor system' to obey the Terms of Services and the Department of Justice Interim Policy on forensic genetic genealogy.'

Larkin explains that the science used by these sites is not perfect, and 'any given centimorgan amount can represent more than one possible relationship.'

She notes one example that has nearly 20 possible relationship lines listed for a match - and says that's considered a close match.

Larkin points out that unlike DNA tests that find an individual, which are standard forensic STR tests, genetic genealogy testing identifies possible relatives.

She then goes on to note cases she's allegedly aware of where genetic genealogy has been wrong, as well as cases where the databases were used improperly by authorities.

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30 January 2023

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY: ERWIN CHERMERINSKY SPEAKS on THE HISTORY OF THIS LAW : WHAT IS ILLEGAL SEARCH and SEIZURE

Besides DNA evidence, the question of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY comes up due to the media's conviction of suspect Bryan Kohberger in the Idaho murders.  Late in 2022 I became rather obsessed with this story, one of about 35,000 murders in the United States in a year, and by watching YouTube videos I was introduced to new media news outlets as well as the True Crime vloggers and so very many people ignorant of the fact that in the United States we are to be considered INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. But just when I had thought that by sorting through I had eliminated all the tarot readers, psychics, speculators, hit-happy no-nothings, I began to realize that major news media was WORSE in the use of their language and promoting theories that had already been denied or eliminated.  Why? Because anyone in major news media should have basic journalism education, and they were in on the speculative discussions and the defaming of his character.

Once horrified by the murders, I became horrified by the knowledge that this man might be innocent, he has been tried and convicted by the media, and his life has been ruined either way.  So, I sought out information about our laws.

Erwin Chermerinsky is one of the best and this lecture outlines the development of our understanding - the fourth and fifth amendments - about what is or is not privacy, search and seizure, and so on.


It was not until the end of the 19th century that professional police forces began to exist. In the Colonial period the searches could be done of whole neighborhoods without issue, searching homes and carriages, but the Fourth Amendment sought to individualize search and seizure. 

Good questions too....